Jesus Did Not Die For Your Sins

Source of “Jesus Died For Our Sins”

“That Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures*; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.”  1Cor 15:3-4  (See BTW#1 below).

There it is. The single sentence, penned by Paul around 55 AD, that is the rationale behind the most fundamental tenet of Christianity – “that Christ died for our sins”. No one else, no where else – is there any support for this assertion (See BTW#2 below).

John 3:16 claims that you will have everlasting life if you “believeth in him” but there is no requirement in John 3:16 to believe that Jesus died for our sins.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16.

We will acknowledge that the phrase “gave his only begotten Son” does  imply a sacrifice; but there is no explicit indication that the sacrifice redeemed us from our sins. Regardless, John 3:16 does not mean what Christians think it does. See BTW#3 below.

How Paul Came To The Conclusion Jesus Died For Our Sins

  • Being a Pharisaic Jew, Paul was well aware of  legalistic practices of Judaism requiring  blood sacrifice rituals.
  • The offering of a sacrifice was considered an act of obedience to God. Paul used this “sacrifice” analogy to interpret Jesus’ crucifixion as an act of obedience to God to atone for the the sins of humankind. Paul wrote, “For as by one man’s (Adam’s) disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man’s (Jesus’) obedience many will be made righteous” (Romans 5:19).
  • Paul’s theory about why Jesus had to die is explained in Paul’s letter to the Christians in Rome. Paul used the story of “Adam and Eve” in the Hebrew book of Genesis to explain the origin of sin and death. Here Paul demonstrates that this belief -we are saved from sin and death by Jesus’ death on the cross (his crucifixion) is totally derived from his extrapolation from Genesis  “Therefore sin came into the world through one man (Adam) and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned” (Romans 5:12).
  •  “But God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ (Jesus) died for us. Since therefore we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God” (Romans 5:8-9). The finishing touch! Paul’s explanation of the death of Jesus was in terms of a blood sacrifice to atone for Adam and Eve’s (alleged) sin.
    (Guess where John got his “For God so loved the world … died for our sins” idea.)

Paul’s Context and Culture

For Paul, the whole idea of “atone for sin, salvation through faith” is derived from his pharisaic knowledge of the Old Testament and his understanding of universal religious “sacrifice” practices. Paul knew that the offering of a sacrifice was considered an act of obedience to God. Paul used this “sacrifice” analogy to interpret Jesus’ crucifixion as an act of obedience to God to atone for the the sins of humankind. Note: Paul “interpreted” – no divine revelation.

Paul had one encounter with a vision/apparition/light of Jesus and that’s all he says about his conversations with Jesus. Paul makes no claim that God/Jesus revealed this “truth” to him! . On the contrary, Paul spells out the stream of conscientious that led him to claim that Jesus died for our sins.

Evolution Refutes Paul’s Reasoning

The foundation tenet of Christianity is based on an event that didn’t happen – the “sin” of Adam and Eve. But, we are here because of Evolution.

As we now know,  man, plants and animals evolved over a period of 3.5 billion years. There was no biblical Adam and Eve. There was no “original sin” to be redeemed by Jesus death. This alone is sufficient to prove that Jesus did not die for our sins.

Paul’s rationale is without foundation. His knowledge of “science” was limited to what he knew of Old Testament stories. If one acknowledges the truth of evolution, then one must also acknowledge that Paul’s conclusion, “Jesus Died For Our Sins” is based on a false, Old Testament verse and therefore cannot be true.

Think of this for a moment. One man writes one sentence based on an event (Adam & Eve) that did not happen and this  misunderstanding of reality gives birth to the most fundamental tenet of the Christian church? Really?

Paul was a Pharisaic Jew. We will concede that Paul did not know about evolution when he evolved his “died for your sins” theory.

Other Evidence (Theological) That Jesus Did Not Die for Our Sins

Theological  Problem I

Paul is the only person in the world to write that Jesus died to redeem us from the sin of Adam and Eve. Jesus never said that his death was to redeem us.

Is it likely that God would rely on a man whose teachings were diametrically opposite (faith vs works, Gentiles vs Jews) to those of his “Son” to pass on the most important idea in all of Christianity? Is it probable that God would let the salvation of all mankind rest on one man’s single sentence which is entirely opposite to the message Jesus presented in the synoptic gospels? Why would God, all of the sudden,  change the message that He sent His only begotten Son here to promulgate? And why would he entrust this HUGE change to be disseminated by a mere mortal?

This is a BIG problem.

Theological Problem II

Using the concept of the Trinity, Jesus is God. Jesus so states in:

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

John 10:38 The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him.

John 14:9 He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

God is Jesus, Jesus is God, God is eternal, God doesn’t die. God did not die, God is not dead. The earthly body of Jesus “died” but Jesus/God is not dead. Where is the “sacrifice” of his “only begotten son” if He is Him?

Theological Problem III

That line of reasoning aside, exactly how would “God sacrificing Himself to Himself to save us from Himself” work? How does that remove the sin of Adam and Eve? It is only by the convoluted thought process of Paul that we are saved because of the God/Jesus “sacrifice”. Surly a an omnipotent, omniscient, loving, merciful, just God who created everything in six days could come up with something other than killing himself/his son. How about just declaring forgiveness?

But, for the sake of argument, let’s grant that “Jesus died for our sins”. In that case, then the sin is gone. Why is it required that one has to believe in Jesus’ Resurrection in order to be saved? The sin of Adam and Eve was redeemed with Jesus’ death. It’s gone! It’s no more – ever! Once and for all. It’s off the backs of everyone who lives after Jesus’ death. What then, does believing in Jesus’ Resurrection have to do with being free from original sin? It has already been redeemed. Why are you only “saved” if you believe that Jesus was Resurrected? What does one’s belief have to do with salvation? But that’s another story.

Theological Problem IV

The “original sin” of Adam was redeemed with the flood!

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.”
Genesis 6:9

Noah was “perfect in his generations”. “Perfect” includes having no sin, otherwise one wouldn’t be perfect. That Noah was perfect “in his generations”  means that all his offspring were also perfect and therefore we are perfect, free from sin. We started over, sinless, from Noah on.

 The Credibility of Paul

Because Paul’s “Jesus Died For Your Sins” theology is the centerpiece of Christian doctrine, it is incumbent to investigate Paul’s credibility.  There are several reasons to doubt that Paul has any credibility whatsoever.

  • Paul has no God given authority to speak. Seeing an apparition does not give one the authority to speak for God.
  • At one point, Paul does claim his knowledge comes from “Revelation” but it is faulty and contradicts what Jesus taught. He does not elaborate on this “Revelation”.
  • Paul contradicts himself.
  • Paul makes promises of things that did not happen.

Because all of the above assertions about Paul’s credibility are developed and evidence is provided in another page – “Paul is so wrong about so much, why do you believe anything he says?,  we will not repeat it here.

The conclusion reached in that page is that nothing Paul says is credible. Don’t challenge that assertion until you have read the page.

The Credibility of John

No Biblical Scholar believes that the book of John was written by the apostle John. The consensus is that John was written by a committee sometime after 90 AD. See Who Wrote The Book of John.  The most unusual thing about John being the author is that he seems to appear unexpectedly from out of nowhere.  No other books of the Bible contain any reference to any person called “the disciple whom Jesus loved”. You will not find this phrase outside of this author’s own gospel.

In addition EVEN IF the author of John was with Jesus, it was over 55 years prior! John would have been a senile, Alzheimer ridden 90 year old man! And yet, we are to believe that he could remember, word for word, exactly what everyone (not just Jesus – he quotes others too) said 55 years ago? That is like a 90 year old man remembering every word, every scene, every situation of a play he was in 55 years ago. Can you recite a 10,000 word tract, word for word,  you read once 55 years ago? That is the equivalent of what John would have done.

What took him so long? Why did it take “John” 55 years to decide to write about the event that determines the fate of all mankind for the rest of eternity? Again, the idea that God would rely on this message from John reaching all of mankind for the rest of eternity is just too preposterous.

Conclusion

The book of John is not credible either.

BTW = BY THE WAY

BTW #1

What Scriptures?

The “scriptures” that Paul refers to are what? Paul is so anxious to tie his idea to scripture that he, without any foundation, claims that his “died for your sins” idea was prophasized in scripture. Where are the verses that prophesize  that a messiah would suffer, die, and be resurrected from the dead? Where are the prophecies that are referred to in 1Cor 15:3-4?

Hosea 6:1-2 perhaps?

Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

But this verse is spoken to an audience; it refers to the people living at the time (hence “us”) and therefore cannot be fulfilled by the death and resurrection of Jesus. It is the only candidate.

BTW 1.1
A Word About Sacrifice

Sacrifice was the standard way to appease the ancient gods. Most religions required the sacrifice of animals and other valuables. A few required human sacrifice. Christianity came up with the ultimate marketing ploy: to gain access to everlasting life, you did NOT have to sacrifice your goat, you did not have to kill another human, you only had to believe that God sacrificed a human, a special human, his SON!

There it is. The concept of sacrifice all wrapped up in a tidy package and no one has to sacrifice anything because God sacrificed his son. Neat eh? No wonder Christianity spread. It was simple to implement at no cost to the believers.

BTW 1.2
There are several other reasons for the acceptance of Christianity. For Paul’s Jewish audience, Paul’s Christianity was an attractive option:

  1. You don’t have to circumcise yourself.
  2. A promise of a heavenly afterlife at no cost; all you have to do is “believe”.
  3. The one sacrifice means you no longer have to sacrifice your goat.
  4. The one sacrifice means you don’t even have to think about your own sin.
  5. You can ignore the unchangeable 613 mitzvot (commandments) that God gave to the Jewish people in the Torah
  6. You can keep all your beliefs about reincarnated Gods and blood sacrifice.

Christianity was a “low cost” option to adopt. Now don’t start telling us about all the Christians that were killed. Yes some were killed for their beliefs just like others were killed for their belief. A Jewish woman could be stoned for adultery.

 BTW#2

No other Gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke) says Christ died for our sins.

John is the only Gospel that even suggests that belief in Jesus died for our sins; that belief in the resurrection is the necessary and sufficient condition for everlasting life. On the other hand, Jesus, in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke, gives at least 23 different paths to salvation. “The Path To Salvation Is Not Clear“ presents each of Jesus’ paths to salvation.  Here is just one of them:

 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Matthew 16: 26-27

In the three synoptic Gospels, Jesus NEVER says or intimates that “I will be crucified so that your sins will be forgiven; I will be reincarnated in three days and if you believe all this, you will have everlasting life when you die”. Never says it!

BTW#3

John 3:16 is Misunderstood by Christians

John, then, is the only disciple who picks up on Paul’s iwith this well known paraphrase of Paul:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

“Whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life”. Hmm…if Jesus spoke those words, then the “him” refers to God, his father; not Jesus! Otherwise he would have said “…that whosoever believeth in ME….

Reference to “HIM” would be consistent with Jesus’ constant message that you must have faith and belief in his Father. It is also consistent with the first part: “For GOD so loved the world that HE sent his only begotten Son. Now, “him” clearly refers to God, not Jesus.

Jesus himself confirms this in John 5:24:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24

Not only does Jesus totally contradict   John 3:16, John 6:47 and John 11:25 with John 5:24 but he makes it clear that John 3:16 is being misinterpreted by Christians. “... believeth on him that sent me…“, that would be his Father, i.e. God. Thus, in John 5:24 Jesus entirely repudiates the notion that belief in  resurrection is necessary for salvation; repudiates that belief in him (Jesus) is necessary for salvation. You only have to Hear Jesus Word AND believeth on Him that sent me … in order to pass from death unto life.

Now, John 5:24 appears to be contradicted by these two verses:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. — John 6:47 –

I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever beliveth and believeth in me shall never die. — John 11:25-26

But neither of these verses say anything about dying to save us from the sin of Adam and Eve, and as pointed out above, they are contradicted by other verses in John.

And… the last two quoted verses totally support the theme of  The Church Of Truth, “The Bible is so wrong about so much, why believe any of it”.

So, which to believe?  John 5:24 or John 6:47?  In this case we have two diametrically opposed dogmas from the same author! Why believe anything John says?

103 comments on “Jesus Did Not Die For Your Sins

  1. Fred Kaufman says:

    All I can say is: Wow

  2. Lutheran says:

    “I now believe in everything that is written in the Wholly Holey Holy Babble.” – “truth”sayer

    I don’t think there’s any chance in changing your mind even if I piled up a hundred passages that refute your claims. The reason being is that you don’t believe that the Bible is God’s Word or truth. You believe that it was compiled by people, committees, and editors…. and by your comment quoted above, even with that understanding you don’t regard it very highly.

    WARNING: I just want to warn people reading this, that this person makes overstatements and assumptions.

    For instance, he says, “No Biblical Scholar believes that the book of John was written by the apostle John.” I am a biblical Scholar who does believe that the book was written by John. I also know many many other biblical scholars who believe this as well.

    • Lutheran says:

      http://www.understandchristianity.com/basic-teachings-of-christianity/forgiveness-of-sins-for-all-people/

      here’s a number of passages to say that the death of Jesus to atone for sin was God’s plan all along and is consistent with all Scripture.

    • TruthSayer says:

      You sir, are not a biblical scholar. “Biblical Scholar” refers to people who do not have a pre-disposition to believe the bible. It refers to people who do actual research on the history of the bible and its authors. Most are found in the religion departments of universities. Is that you ? I thought not. I stand by my statement that no bone-fide religious scholar believes that the apostle John wrote the book of John.

      Think about it. If the apostle John had been a contemporary of Jesus at around age 30 and he wrote about Jesus some 60-70 years later, John would have been a senile Alzheimer ridden old man. How did he recall, word for word all the words of Jesus and everyone around him?

      • Lutheran says:

        A Biblical Scholar is simply someone who studies the Bible – yes it includes the history of the book itself and researching the authors – both of which I have done and still do. Pre-disposition has nothing to do with it. A Christian can study the Bible historically just as well as an archaeologist or historian. Although I am not employed by the religious department of a university, I’ve studied with people who were and who also share my conviction that the apostle John wrote the book of John.

        Your 1 argument against his writing it is that he would have been old and senile when he wrote it. Can you please share your evidence which proves that John was 30 when the events took place and that he didn’t write about it until 60-70 years later?

  3. Paul Lackey says:

    First off you see live as a human as the only form of our existents. John is speaking on 2 different levels. Are human existents and our spiritual existents.
    Here is why we see evolution as true. We see ourselves as the Apex of intelligence. It wasn’t all that long ago that we thought the world was flat. Now we think we know it all. We know very little. Truth is relative to what we believe. If we could only realize how little we know, and realize the fullest understand of truth is in the one who created. The big bang is essentially from nothing became everything. Try thinking less about what we think we know and more on what we don’t know. Ask God to reveal things to you. One quick thing, if you combine a few stats regarding spirituality,, religion, ect. you will come up with a high pecentage of people on this planet, that believe we are spiritual. In my calculations well over 90 percent. Why isn’t understandings like this used to determining who we really are? But you do the math is it more about who we are as humans or who we are in a spiritual capacity? It’s all about the journey within!

  4. Moses says:

    Today in the morning I was walking in the park, as I am doing for some days and meditating about bible, Jesus all that things. And the truth come to my mind, that way I’m here on this page was doing some research about my thoughts. Jesus don’t died for our sin, he lived for what he believed and died for what he believed, he could give up when under pressure, he could say: Ok, you guys are right I not gonna think more about that, let me alive and leave me alone. And than who we gonna follow, if the one has found the truth give up in the middle of the road?? But he gonna to the end and said..You can kill me but you don’t kill my believe. And today we are sure he is the man we should follow the path, he is the way, He show us how to get there and never give up what we believe. Nobody goes to father but through me..through his example, hes life stile, his belief, we need be like Jesus to rich the supreme light, we need reborn again and make ourselves like a children, Jesus shows its possible, everything he did, he did in human form, with pain. You right, Jesus don’t died for our sin, He died to show us the way.

  5. J.R. says:

    I don’t think I have ever seen more incoherent, illogical, ignorant dribble in all my life than the whole of this page. Truthsayer, your “truth” is all wrong. The single biggest problem with most atheists I have encountered is that they are wounded children who can’t see past the end of their nose. Truth? Truth is enlightened, not vehement in ignorance. In fact, the same goes to the Bible beaters in here. Those who seek truth do not say things like “I don’t care” and “I’ll only believe what I sense with my own, biased, limited sensory perception.” Whether that sensory perception is through the reading of a book, the witnessing of “miracles,” or the knowledge of theory (which by the way, science calls them “theories” because they cannot be PROVEN ABSOLUTELY TRUE, EVER, or they’d be called facts), it is completely ignorant to assume any of you have all the answers. One of the truest assessments of intelligence is the ability to admit when one does not know. Wisdom comes from acceptance.

    • tomschaber says:

      “incoherent, illogical, ignorant dribble in all my life than the whole of this page”? You’re kidding right? Have you seen any of Donald Trump’s tweets? Surely his dribble is worse than mine.

      Instead of assigning a string of pejorative alliterating adjectives to my truth, show me where I am wrong and I will repent, recant and retract.

  6. Didos says:

    It is a good analysis and you answered to many of my questions. Thank you!

  7. Hector says:

    God loves you and therefore will forgive whatever you say in offense. I pray that He will enlighten you to the eternal truth, not things as irrelevant as the Evolution which is powerless to save us from deaths, but His Son who has willingly died for you and me so that we can come back to the right way. Speak to your soul, not to your mind which is whimsical and is full of useless arguments that are irrelevant to your salvation. Are you happy? Are you truly happy? If so why do you curse people who have opposing thoughts? Feel free to share with me via email. Until then I will pray for you. Hector

  8. Newlyrestoredgospel777 says:

    The Sin of Adam H.E and Mother Eve is mortality. The GOD came in the flesh in the shoes of HIS son Father Adam H.E, as a bail price to bail HIS son out of hell. But the systems of hell cannot hold GOD and he resurrected HIMSELF, and took Father Adam H.E, Mother Eve and the saints to Eden, which is the 3rd Heaven.

    This was also the reason why Father Adam H.E, son in the earth Abel (A Bail) died at the hands of Cain.

    This is what was fulfilled. At the last supper, The GOD on the flesh made HIMSELF mortal and gave the church HIS body and took their blood which is what makes us mortal.

    The Apostle John was never scenile as he was in the office of the Prophet and could not even be killed.

    However, if you read carefully you will see that the conspiracy of JESUS of Nazareth HIS PREEMINENCE dying for the sins of the world actually originated by Caiaphas, a high Priest of the pharisees and it was organsied by them. This is the same people that were called vipers, wicked vipers!

    The GOD does not have blood as flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of GOD. HE took the blood from the church and made HIMSELF mortal, fulfilling the LAW and the Prophets

    Whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you. Do so even unto them. For that is the Law and the Prophets.

    I HAVE THE POWER TO LAY MY LIFE DOWN AND TO TAKE IT UP AGAIN. NO MAN TAKES IT FROM ME.

    Father Adam H.E was not deceived. 1 Tim 2:14

    Father Adam H.E chose to eat the fruoit of mortality to Procreate Mankind which is only possible as a mortal. So the GOD came to bail him out of Hell and restore him to glory as the son of GOD. That is the cross Father Adam H.E carried.

    My Salvation did not demand the death of my dear savior! How the could i call the GOD all forgiving? The fallen nature is mortality and that was the result of eating the fruit.

    Ye shall know a tree by its fruit.

    This is the truth of the Gospel.

    • TruthSayer says:

      Good God; Do you make this shit up? Where do you get it? Where in the Wholly Holey Holy Book of Babble do you find this nonsense?

      • Newlyrestoredgospel777 says:

        As i said, this is the truth of the Gospel – the Exegesis of Genesis, the truth of the original sin, the truth of Salvation. Accept it or reject it according to your will.

  9. Ju ju oakley says:

    If I end up being killed for Jesus then there must be some valid threat. Why go out of your way to kill someone because they believe in Jesus what’s the point if he is nothing?

    Jesus is not a religion he is the truth no where in the bible are we instructed to set up separate denominations in church buildings to worship on Sundays.

    Age of aquarius age of evil. Watch it on YouTube.

  10. Ju ju oakley says:

    If Jesus is not the truth then why is he such a threat to anyone?
    Why waste your time arguing about him.
    If someone wants you killed for defending Jesus why is he a problem if it’s not true?
    Why kill someone for defending Jesus if he means nothing?

    • TruthSayer says:

      Jesus is not the threat. It is the mindless adherence to fantasy that is found in every religion, the suppression of reason and logic, the denial of science, the killing by Christians and others of those who believe differently.

      If the message is so clear, why are there “separate denominations” and religions? Here’s why: Because of all the confusing, contradictory nonsense found in the wholey, holey holy babble book.

      • suresh says:

        Whether you accepted it or not “Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.” And I am not hesitated to says that these Truth cannot be changed whether you like it or not. But I proposed you to know what it is written in John 8:24″Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

  11. Melinda Jo Velez says:

    Matthew 26:27-28 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them saying, “Drink from it, all of you. For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Verse 29: “But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”

    The “cup” in the O.T. is a metaphor for divine punishment of sin. Hence, Jesus’ death involved far more than physical death, for He becomes the object of the divine wrath against sin by His identification with sinful man.

    Also, Jesus’s death is placed in the context of a Passover (Seder) meal, and since the meal is literally a liturgy, it must be completed or the participants defy the commandment of God.

    Four cups must be drunk to complete the ceremony, and the Eucharistic cup Christ passed around at table was what the Jews call “the cup of blessings,” the third cup. However, devoted Jewish people understand that the meal is then cut short, with Christ going to the Garden to pray while forgoing the fourth cup, meaning the meal was not completed. However, later on, in the Garden, Christ prays about “letting this cup pass from me,” which still indicates that Christ has the fourth cup in mind.

    He is captured, and eventually sentenced, and again we hear “Truly I tell you, I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God,” another reference to the fourth cup. Notice how he refuses to drink the wine while he still hasn’t suffered.

    After his agonizing pain on the Cross, right before His death, Christ is given some sour wine, which He does drink “And someone ran, filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a stick, and gave it to him to drink (Mark 15)” which St. John, an eyewitness, describes in more detail:
    A jar full of sour wine was standing there. So they put a sponge full of the wine on a branch of hyssop and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the wine, he said, “It is finished.” Then he bowed his head and gave up his spirit (John 19:29-30).

    In all Gospel accounts, Jesus drank the wine and then died. That wine was the fourth cup which finished the Passover meal.

    And what do Jews call the fourth cup? The cup of Salvation, meaning that the Cruxifiction was a part of the Last Supper which ended in the cup of Salvation, bitter in more ways than one.

    John 10:14-18: “I am the good shephard; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. As the Father knows Me, even as I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice, and there will be one of flock and one shepherd. Therefore, my Father loves Me because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from my Father.”

    The pharisees and Jewish leaders believed either that 1) perhaps Jesus was mad/crazy to call himself God and to assert that He had the power to control His life and death, and, more importantly, the ability to restore life to Himself (as stated in this previous verse) or 2) perhaps He was who He said He was.

    With regard to Isaiah 53, Luciana, this is a prophetic verse. In other words, the verse is stating something that is going to happen. The Jewish people KNEW that a Messiah was coming. This is just one of many prophecies, and Jesus fulfilled the prophecy. The Jewish people still believe that a Messiah is coming.

    You stated that the problem you had with this is that the verse was written before and not after Christ’s death. If it had been written after, it would not be a prophecy and would merely be a statement of fact. This also suggests to me that you are looking for factual proof that Jesus is who He says He is and proof that God exists. The proof that you are looking for is not to be found unless you are looking for it.

    Finally, I read this entire post with some interest in that the “arguments” put forth are not arguments of sound, philosophical thought, but, rather, are arguments of animosity, disdain, and dismissal of other people’s beliefs. The listed “rational points” also show a lack of understanding and knowledge of the Bible and the fundamentals of Christianity. If you are sincerely interested in discussing the tenets of Christianity, they can be discussed and debated without belittling or refusing to consider what the person with differing or opposing views has to say. In being dismissive, you are cheating yourself of the opportunity to expand your mind and learn what others believe and why they believe what they believe. You don’t have to accept it, but there’s no reason to demean the people who suggest answers or alternatives to your opinions. You have a wonderful opportunity to glean insight to beliefs that to you may seem irrational. As a scholar, if you try to understand others’ beliefs and belief systems, not just Christianity, but Judaism, Hindi, etc. you might find it extremely enlightening.

    Hope that you and all who contributed to this post find what you need or what you seek.

    • TruthSayer says:

      Wow – Melinda, you carry on like you believe all the nonsense in the Wholly Holey Holy Babble. You quote passages as though they were written by eye-witnesses instead of men who heard about Jesus from someone who heard about Jesus.

      If Mark 16:18 is true, why are there hospitals? Show me examples of Mark 16:18 (lay hands on the sick and they will be healed) and I will believe. Come on over to my house and drink some Draino, handle some rattlesnakes and Heal everyone in the local hospital, and by God, I swear I will believe I will pay for your ticket and lodging to Oxford Ohio.

      Oh, and don’t give me the ole “you can’t test God” BS. Every prayer that requests something is a test of God. Consider it as witnessing to me.

  12. Derek says:

    I think its a test by God to see whats in peoples hearts. Basically if u accept jesus suffering as somehow remitting your own evil qualities then id say u r pretty much worthless and dont care about truth or logic unless it suits you. Furthermore Those who do think as such lack empathy and are incredibly cruel. I do think God raised Jesus from dead etc performed miracles et al and probably practiced buddhist meditation, mudras, etc but wicked people r in denial aboutwho he was or is about in their lies insecurity. If they truly loved God who is truth (the enemy is always a liar no matter where u go or what u do) then they would use logic (jesus is said to be logos) as you have done and not accept something blindly or at face value because it “sounds nice or beneficial to oneself”. I think if there is a hell most will end up there.

  13. suresh loitongbam says:

    Can you please explain, what it is written in ‘Luke9:35’ or let me understand first, what do you say about who Jesus is? or what is the important of His death and resurrection?

    • tomschaber says:

      Jesus was an itinerant snake oil salesman selling nonsense to anyone who wanted a free ride (no need to sacrifice your penis or your goats) to eternal life. There is no importance to his death other than the fact that the trumped up story about it created one of the 100’s of religions.

      About his resurrection? Never happened. It is only recorded on paper by three people (Matthew, Luke, John) who wrote up to 90 years after the event. On the other hand, there were 1000’s of people alive at the time of his alleged resurrection who say nothing about some guy coming back from the dead. Don’t you think the Romans would have been intensely interested in finding the guy who survived their crucifixion?

  14. Killin Bildvow says:

    Christ died for my sins. I am new. Over night my change came. Just in time too. God and Christ’s there when No One else are. So write and research all you want, but your aim is to prove Christ didn’t die for our sins,why would you find or be looking to find proof He didn’t?
    Thatd be backward.but research should be in Truth looked to be proven false first. God bless your search.

  15. jerry says:

    Whoever wrote this would be hated so much for speaking the truth.Christians have been lied to so much and they would pay for it dearly.Ignorance would be no excuse and the funny thing they think you are a Muslim when you tell them Christ did not die for our sins…im a christian in Africa and in my country(Ghana) my church (Israel King Of Jews Church) is hated so much for preaching Christ did not die for our sin.We are the only church with such beliefs and that makes us unique.why do they even have churches if Christ has died for their sins?isn’t the blood enough for them?they should seek the Holy Spirit for understanding of the scriptures and stop relying on the blood of Christ.Everyone would be judged according to your works…John 17:6 makes it clear that even Christ did not pray for the world but for His disciples only…i did not even pray for the world,talk of dying for the world.better fight for your own salvation and stop the blood of Jesus thing.He gave His blood for us to drink and His body to drink before he was crucified…Why why would people still die even after His death because a great earthquake occurred after His death.there are so many things proving Christ did not die for our sins but i think most Christians are too much in to the lies they have heard so many times.God help us all

  16. Deborah says:

    Contemplate this…
    YHWH (God) cannot make His own Word a lie by breaking His own Law (Torah). Yahushua (Jesus/God) had to come and die in the flesh to end His (Gods) original Marriage Covenant to us (Israel) because of our “adulteries” (idolatry/other Gods) to Him (our Husband). The Word says He divorced us (Israel) because of our adultery. But His (YHWH’s) Law says a divorced women cannot remarry as long as her husband is still living without it being adultery…(unless he be dead). And a Husband cannot take his divorced wife back if she has remarried. Therefore, Yahushua (Jesus) would not be able to come back (second coming) to “Marry His Bride” (New Covenant) without dying a physical death to end the original Marriage Covenant… it would be unlawful for God to take us back according to His Word/Law without His own death.
    The so called “sin” that He took by dying on the stake was a measure necessary in order to come back for those of us who are made ready as His Spotless Blemishless Bride. From the beginning it has always been about a Marrige Covenant between us and Him… an adulterous free one.
    He did not come and die in the flesh just so we would have a “Paid in Full-Do What You Want-Get Out Of Hell Free-Grace Card”… He had to die in order to “LAWFULLY” marry those of us who LOVE HIM IN TRUTH at the Marriage Supper.
    By the way, how does He say that He knows we love Him??
    Yes, we obey all that He has commanded… everyone lets say “ALL”.

    YHWH LOVE TO ALL ~<3
    HOPE THIS BLESSES YOU!

    • tomschaber says:

      “Contemplate this”?

      Are you kidding? I will not contemplate that soup of poppycock until I see some of the bible’s verses actually come to life. For example according to Mark 16:17-18, we shouldn’t need hospitals any more. ” And these signs shall follow them that believe…. they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”

      So I want you to go to your local hospital, lay hands on the sick and empty the hospital. I will know that you did that because it will be covered world wide; I can see the headlines now “Deborah X of ??? heals every sick patient in local hospital” Do that and when I read of your miracles, then I will contemplate what you wrote.

      OK?

  17. He not god ,I know things about him,not true,

  18. I see a lot of people don’t understand the bible,they only read it to justify their faith not to understand. A lot of christians don’t know metaphors, images,figurative that are in the bible. That’s why they don’t follow the teaching of christ but Pauline s teaching, I think every christian need to go to theological colleges before calling themselves christians. The most upside down Christianity is happening in America, africa and Europe. Please get study guide about the bible and understand why,how,and where books of the bible were written.

    • Clifton Crawford says:

      First off, people who do not have the Spirit of God do not understand Scripture all together. I find it so funny yet sorrowful when an atheist or non Christian try and interpret the Bible and have it wrong the entire time. Non-Christians as opposed to Christians who study the Bible cannot understand what Scripture teaches. Paul’s teachings were parallel to Christ’s teachings. Paul’s letters are commentaries on Christ teachings. That is why Peter confirmed Paul as a brother in Christ as well as his epistles in 2 Peter 3:15-16. “I think every christian need to go to theological colleges” this is the silliest statement I have ever heard. How do you account for the ignorant Bible writers to even have the knowledge to write the Bible, especially Jesus’ disciples? They were ignorant as can be. You are not taught in Theological colleges my friend, you are taught by the Holy Spirit of God, for He is our teacher. You are deluded if you think theological school are the source of truth and note that I am not condemning all of the school. My point is that you do not have to go to school to understand the Bible, correctly. There are many people who went to theology schools and even obtained top degree who turned atheist, agnostics, Bible critics and so on. For example, Darwin had a theology degree and didn’t believe…

      So let me ask you a question? Do you believe Christ died for our sins, when you take ALL what scriptures teaches about it?

      • TruthSayer says:

        “So let me ask you a question? Do you believe Christ died for our sins, when you take ALL what scriptures teaches about it?”

        Clifton…. did you not read what I, the TruthSayer, said about that concept; i.e. “Christ died for our sins”? The ONLY place in the bible where that conceit is even stated is 1Cor 15:3-4. That’s it. Where is “All what scriptures teaches about it”?

      • Clifton Crawford says:

        TruthSayer

        It just blows me away for someone to make those types of statement. I mean the ignorance is profound in your response. Christ coming to die for the sins of the people who would believe in Him goes way back to the OT. For example, the book of Isaiah Chapter 53. What in the world are you talking about Paul only mentioning it? It’s all over the gospel. You might not find direct quotes but there are many words and phrases that allude to it. For example, Jesus or the gospel writers used words and phrases like Christ came to forgive, Christ said he came to die and forgive sins, Christ will rise and so on. The message is simple. Secondly, Peter actually stated in, 1 Peter 3:18…again, what in the world are you talking about? What you need to do is repent, stop posting foolish comments, and ask the Lord for forgiveness. I do not see how this is up for discussion….If Jesus didn’t die for our sins then He died for nothing…Lastly, Paul words are the word of God thus all it takes for the bible to say something once for it to be truth…Stop with this demonic nonsense

      • Sun Khem says:

        Non sense I breath life in and exhale death until I expire Sun Khem read this face book page as it is ridiculous to even quote scripture until we find out souls and so as I have sarcastically have stated. Illiteracy and slothfulness of study and keen sense of BS and I don’t mean bachelors of science. Bull dung is all that these religions offer to the ignorant and or peasant aka under a different state of reality. So if you are in the spirit at least you cannot be in the world. So are you then therefore dead or just full of indoctrinated influences. Have you sold all you possess and have you become as a child. How come planes haven’t crashed in to the Kingdom in the clouds? I am being sarcastic literally because I feel like people involved in a belief system are not able to reason with sanity because they are under an oath.

      • David says:

        what gets me on the whole thing on the 3 religions of Abraham is….why does an all powerful creator need any specific religion to speak or take up for it? isn’t that beneath and almighty power? second why do you go by the king james version and not earlier texts of the bible? does one version only work to support whoever is in power of the church at that time? and why would anyone really worship anything that requires blood sacraficies or constant admiration or worship? isn’t that more like a dictator?

  19. Clifton Crawford says:

    This has to be the craziest and most ignorant page I have ever seen. This page is absolute ignorant to scripture and lack basic hermeneutics of scripture. I do not know where to begin. Oh how false prophets are condemned.

    CLIFTON – I WISH YOU WOULD AT LEAST TRY TO BEGIN. IS THE ASSERTION THAT ONLY PAUL, AND IN ONLY ONE PLACE SAYS “JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS” WRONG? SHOW ME!

    • Michaelarice says:

      The Issue with things like this, is that unschooled/ uneducated individuals can make the Scripture say anything they want it to, you can make it look as though that is the only place in scripture that it says that because it also says in Romans 6-10 “You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

      9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” so just because it doesn’t distinctly say that Christ died for us in those exact terms “anywhere else” in this passage and many others it says that Jesus died for us, (verse 8) and that he died so we could have reconciliation and be saved through his life (verse 10) that is saying in real terms, that Christ died for us.
      there are plenty of websites that will claim things about scripture because they think that the internet is all true, for instance a website claimed that Paul was the antichrist and the entire new testament was the worlds greatest lie, just because He killed Christians, and the Anti-Christ is against Christ and therefore against Christians. props to you Clifton Crawford, for knowing more about what you believe, and also not being someone that is unable and unwilling to stand up when people oppose. In order to understand scripture one must actually put in the time to look at original language and learn it, as well as look at more than one verse, you can take a single verse in scripture and the use it to say just about anything, look at the Bible in its original context, what did it mean to those it was written to, then take it and apply it here, you cannot understand the scriptures depth of meaning without understanding to whom it was written, why, and what circumstances the author as well as the recipients were in at the time.

  20. Sika Evans says:

    So as a Christians , in what should we believe in and how should we classify ourselves compare to sin

    • TruthSayer says:

      Believe in evolution, the big bang, evidence, truth, love, compassion, diversity, understanding.

      I don’t understand “how should we classify ourselves compare to sin”. HUH? Forget about sin. It there was “original sin”, it was washed away when “perfect” Noah and his sons incested the few other “perfect” people left on earth and recreated the entire perfect, sinless population. Make sense?

      Remember “Noah was a just man and perfect.” Genesis 6:9. So all of Noah’s offspring (us) are sinless and perfect ourselves. So, not to worry about your sin.

      • Jason Sues says:

        Some translations say Noah was perfect, others righteous, others a man of integrity, blameless. I don’t know of any translation that says he was sinless. These descriptions were not meant to imply he was sinless, only that he faithfully walked with God and so received grace from God (Genesis 6:8). He would not need grace if he were sinless. He inherited the sinful nature just like everyone else, likewise his children and so on.

      • Newlyrestoredgospel777 says:

        You sound very confused. Let me ask you a question. IF the wages of Sin is death then why are lucifer and his cohorts still alive? The GOD of Creation is a GOD of justice, no? This should make it clear to you that what they said about Adam H.E disobeying GOD being the sole reason for why we are fallen is a lie. they claim that he became Spiritually dead. This is a lie.

        The Spirit of the person is what comes from GOD. The Spirit is immortal. The person is the Spirit, not the body.The Spirit being is the real person. Man being made in the image and after the likeness of GOD is pointing to begetting a Son. Here is proof.

        Gen 5
        3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

        Now Adam H.E being made in the image and after the likeness of GOD means HE is like GOD just as Seth is like Adam H.E. Adam H.E was birthed in the image and after the likeness of GOD which is the image of GOD the Son, A Celestial, transfigured body was what was coupled for HIM. This was before the fall of Man. Then Seth was begotten in the image and after the likeness of Adam H.E, after the fall, in the mortal body.

        Luke 3:38
        38Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

        GOD is a Spirit.

        John 4
        24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

        Gen 6:3
        … Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also
        is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” …

        This verse is a blasphemy against the Character of GOD because GOD cannot Strive. HE does not strive with any. HE is the LORD GOD.

        A child is born, a son is given. Isaiah 9:6

        Deut 7:13
        … And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: _he will also bless the
        fruit of thy womb_, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and …

        The fruit is what is produced from it, such as the fruit which is produced from the land.

        This reveals that Man is a Spirit and it is the flesh that decays, ages, and dies… The flesh is the mortal body, which is the garment that is unrighteous, the naked body of Man because it lacks any Glory, which is the raiment of Man in his Celestial, Transfigured body. There is no glory in a body that can die.

        The lies in the church today that are preached are many:

        Baptism: they don’t understand the significance of it and that any person baptised by someone that is not the leader of the church age has not been recognised by our Father in Heaven as being baptised. The oil runs down from the head. Baptism is an ordinance which must be kept because it is signifying going to Abraham’s Bosom where one is washed clean, by the washing’s of regeneration. Any that are not successfully baptised, will spend a much longer time in Abraham’s bosom so much so that they shall not inherit Eden, rather, the new earth shall be their inheritance. The reason is that they were not made perfect at the time of the first resurrection, and thus had to wait for the 2nd Resurrection.

        These are the Spirits of the Just Men made perfect that shall rise first. All other Spirits not made perfect by the first resurrection shall not be resurrected.

        Born Again: Nicodemus is representing a case of the blind leading the blind. Being a ruler of the Jews and not knowing that you need to be born again, the GOD was revealing that he is blind, because he cannot see Heaven, and yet, was supposed to be leading GOD’s people to Heaven.
        Now Christians today think they have been re-born into a perfect Creation, and yet they can still fall sick, age and die. They believe that they have imputed righteousness, that merit is not rewarded lest any man should boast, and that death, which GOD calls our enemy, is the route to Heaven.

        If death is the route to Heaven, then why would the GOD resurrect Lazarus? Why would GOD keep Lazarus from Heaven? When the GOD said, loose him and let him go, it was revealing that those who die are in a prison, where they must wait until being resurrected. Death is therefore not the route to Heaven.

        Being born again is not a confession. James reveals this when he said:

        James 2:19
        Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

        And…

        Matt 8:29
        And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

        A birth is pointing to the rebirth of the body, which the church has dubbed as Rapture (1 Cor 15:50-58). It is not a rapture, it is not something that happens without works. And those works are stipulated as follows.

        Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink his blood ye have no life in you. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. This HE said as the WORD which was made flesh for food.

        John 6
        35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

        John 8
        51 If a man keep my sayings, he shall never see death.

        This is revealing that the WORD has not been in the earth because people are still dying. That is because the bible is diluted, wrought with blasphemies, lies and incomplete verses mistranslated by the ones that put the bible together because they were not called to do so. Thus, many verses do not contain the Spirit in the WORD, that life Giving WORD, which is the reason for John 6:53

        the Son of Man is not JESUS CHRIST our supreme LORD. The Son of Man is the Son of Adam H.E, The Spirit of Elijah.

        The GOD who knows the end from the beginning as opposed to what is written in Rev 22:18, Knows HIS own and cannot make mistakes. Knowing that the WORD would be trampled on, blasphemed, that the prophets of baal shall make merchandise out of it, and that the WORD would be diluted (leavened) incomplete, HE sent The spirit of Elijah to restore all things. This is what many Christians don’t want to acknowledge, because then it means their faith is for nought, that their belief is a lie. The following verses reveal this to be true.

        Malachi 4:4-6, Acts 3:19-23, Rev 10:7, Rev 18:4, John 16:12-15, Matt 17:11

        Noah was an Angel of the church Age, the 2nd Angel of the 2nd Church, who coupled the ARK of safety whereby no plague entered therein. There was no death of any of the lives in the ARK and none of the flood entered either. HE was eating the WORD of GOD and yet he had no bible to read revealing that WORD HE was eating was from GOD HIMSELF. That is the reason why men lived 100s and 100s of years, because if the WORD, pure, raw that they were eating which is REVELATION knowledge, not faith, is the food which keeps you from Ageing, getting sick and dying.

        The point is that there are only 2 Holy Men of GOD which did not die in their sins. Those are Enoch and Elijah. These are the only two men that profited from their salvation because the great Prophets transfigured in life and never tasted death. This has been the message from the beginning. You can live and not die at all, and that was the reason for Gen 1:28

        The transfigured body is your righteous body because it can not decay, age and die. It is perfect, fearfully and wonderfully made. Everyone that has not put on their transfigured body is living in their sins. Why? Because they are still decaying, ageing and dying. Death and ageing is a reproach unto GOD because HIS WORD is the solution. So GOD’s Church is therefore an immortal bride, one that is not ageing, getting sick or dying. A mortal is not living, they are dying.

        Therefore, no individual sins (transgressions) of the people outside the ARK were cleansed in the flood, rather the earth was cleansed from the evil which the tare Angels did, poisoning the DNA of Man and animals alike, bringing forth offspring that are outcasts, not man not angel, No soul or Spirit, only body. It was the sweet savour of a cleansed earth which the LORD smelled, not the blood of an offering.

        The ones that put the bible together have made GOD out to be someone that delights in blood, and smells it as a sweet savour. This is a lie. For it is written:

        blood cannot inherit the kingdom of GOD. Blood is the life of the flesh, you shall not consume it, it is an abomination. So why would the GOD delight in it, if HIS children are commanded not to? Lies!

        The Gospel is about the kingdom race of the People of GOD that are sent into the earth to pick up a body from their parents, seek the LORD GOD, eat the WORD of GOD, transfigure that mortal body into the immortal Celestial body without ever dying at all. Only that the Previous Angels of the church ages were not able to ACCURATELY interpret GOD’s Height of Communication, because they are in the similitude of the body and not the Spirit. The Spirit is what leads the body. The body cannot lead the body to Heaven. Thus, inaccurate interpretations has given the church the wrong mindset.

        Mankind is the prestigious race, the head of all the Heavenly Citizens, the biological children of GOD because our Spirit (the real person) comes from GOD. Im not talking about GOD’s Most Holy Spirit, but the Spirit inside the person from their birth into the earth, which if they are HIS children, is a Holy Spirit in recognition of where that person (Spirit) has come from. GOD does not possess HIS children as demons do. GOD’s Most Holy Spirit does not live inside the mortal flesh of anyone. THAT IS A LIE!

        We being immortal are in a fallen nature because we are in a mortal body that can age, get sick and die. That fallen nature is the result of sin. Thus Mortality is the sin nature. No Mortal is righteous because they are capable of transgressions and death is a reproach unto GOD. It is the blood in the body that is the life of the flesh. This is revealing that the blood, which cannot inherit the kingdom of GOD must be drained from the body and this is the re birth.

        Heaven is not a ghost world or else there is no reason for a resurrection. therefore it is a real physical place which requires you to have a body. That body is your passport into Heaven and that body is the Celestial, Transfigured body of Man – the Original Anatomy of Man. This body is knwn better by the church as the resurrection body.

        The rebirth does not mean to die, but that the WORD of GOD has the power to transfigure you by draining the blood in your body which immortalises you in life.

        Without the shedding of blood there can be no re mission of sins.

        Terrestrial foods which sustain the mortal body deposits vitamins and minerals which provides energy and health. In the same way, Divine Eucharistic Revelations (pure WORD of GOD) deposits immortal cells in the body which renews the person daily with limitless energy, strength and being unable to ever get sick.

        He that is whole needs not a physician.

        Born again is pointing to a rebirth which makes the person Whole, which is doing away with the current cell system – blood and overthrowing it completely with the Zoe cell system. Zoe cells, unlike blood cells do not multiply, they must be added into the body by eating Revelation knowledge of the GOD dispensed by the Son of Man. The re-birth is a Progressive one that takes place over time. this is why Enoch lived 300 years walking with GOD. For it took him 300 years to transfigure.

        Therefore, they are a like a mustard seed (must add) seed which once they are in their full state transfigure the body which is taller and mightier than a palm tree and the systems of the earth enabling you to move mountains because an immortal is not bound by the LAWS and bounds of the earth. This is what GOD meant by:

        Love the LORD your GOD with all your heart and with all your mind and with all your strength. For Revelation knowledge is knowing the GOD, not believing in HIM or having “faith”. Faith is milk, it is ghostly, while Knowledge is meat.

        And the second command is pointing to your body. For you are a Spirit, immortal and Holy, so love your neighbour ( your body) as yourself means to immortalise your body, put on righteousness in life, because a person that has transfigured cannot break the LAW. They are perfect. A transfigured Being has no blood, or water in the body, only Zoe Cells, which is the life force for immortals.

        I typed up all this in the hope that it will open your eyes to see that you have good reason to doubt the current bible, but that the GOD is truly Almighty and Faithful and has one VOICE. The fact that you have not been deceived yet appear to have knowledge of the Scriptures is a sign of seeking the truth, and if that be the case, then this truth that ye seek, is what ive just shared with you.

        Knowing that you can live and not die is the hardest thing for a mortal to believe, yet that same mortal believes he will be resurrected. This is the message that one can know is true, and still have Iotas of unbelief. This is the message that shall reap the souls of the children of the kingdom, separated the true Jews from the false, for the false cannot transfigure, hear or understand this Gospel. This Gospel is for Pure Hominids only.

  21. Adam and Eve in genius is just a metaphor in the storyline of right and wrong tree of knowledge well who wouldn’t want it, look where we are now. And she was also told of God giving us free will. She chose knowledge so to speak of.

    • Clifton Crawford says:

      Adam and Eve were real life people who lived in a real time in history. Jesus referred to them as well…if Adam and Eve were metaphors then how did the earth populate? Wow would Genesis says that they filled the earth and so on…Genesis doesn’t make sense if Adam and Eve is metaphor. The genealogy doesn’t make sense either all throughout the Bible…

      Truthsayer’s Response
      You are right! Genesis doesn’t make sense if Adam and Eve is a metaphor. Couldn’t agree more. What evidence do you have, other than words written by ignorant (not stupid, ignorant) men 3500 years ago that Adam and Eve were real people?

      There is no doubt that we evolved from ooze in the swamp millions of years ago. At what point did we have only two people, Adam and Eve? If you believe the fable that Adam and Eve were the only two people and that we all “evolved” from them, then at what point in our development did incest and inbreeding become bad for the development of the species? Who did Cain marry? After the flood, we started all over again. Once again we would have had brother and sister making babies. We know that produces a horrible outcome these days but you are saying that didn’t happen with the progeny of Adam and Eve and Noah?

      I would love to hear your response to fact.

      • David says:

        so did god create the apple in the first place??kind of dumb in a way to make something you already knew what was going to happen if you supposedly know the future.

  22. That would be his father h.e.god.

  23. Tom says:

    Point in the Bible is Jesus died for the sins of Adam recorded in 1 Corinthians 15 pointing to one fact –out sin is from Adam NOT GOD. Jesus settle the issue of Adams sin which also includes us. Now the Family of God in the world is back in force. Satan opposes all we do but can not lay a hand on us only trick others in interfering in out life.

    • tomschaber says:

      You actually believe that crap – original sin? How was Eve to know that the snake wasn’t God? After all, at least the snake talked to her; she only heard “God’s word” as hearsay from Adam. Why should Eve even trust Adam? He didn’t look like her. There was only a passing reference to a particular tree in the middle of a bunch of trees.

      Why would God want to withhold knowledge from those he created anyway. Why didn’t …. oh the heck with it. The whole story is so preposterous it doesn’t warrant any more of my time.

      • Sam Massey says:

        It is sad that humans, that are supposed to be the most intelligent animal
        life on earth can believe that a snake talked to Eve! I bet you see Santa Claus come down your chimney every pagan Christmas if you have a chimney or not! I bet you see the Rabbits laying colored eggs. You take the Bible of so many fairy tales, and teach your children all the lies of your pagan religion, and culture. No wonder you can believe that in the pagan bible where it says water was turned to blood,manna fell from heaven, the earth stopped rotating, and rotated backwards ten degrees, the Red Sea parting, Jonah being swollowed by a whale, the donkey talking, the ax head floating to the surface of the water, there was no day light for three days, and nights. All this
        belief in these fairy tales is dew to people not wanting to die. They have a misguided hope of an after life. They listen to a bigger liar than a polititan, and
        that is a preacher! They lie, that, the idol Jesus is coming back very soon. All
        generations die, and it does not happen. The original lie was the he would come back before that generation would die, and that lie is repeated by the
        faults words of the NT every since, wake up animals, yes the same bible declares you are not above an animal. Why let preachers steal your money, and time?

      • David says:

        Again nonsense god had to invent this original sin if all exists because of it…why punish you for something it created?

      • Newlyrestoredgospel777 says:

        This is the problem with the lack of understanding you possess. In Revelations it is written: And that old Serpent, to show that the serpent is still alive. The serpent was not a snake possessed. Nor was it lucifer, Rather is was a Seraph called Kalia. This is also revealed in the fact that the serpent is referred to as a female in Genesis, because the Seraphim are the Females while a Cherubim is the Male. Lucifer is a Cherub.

        If you were a reasonable student of the bible at one stage, you may have heard or read the story of Naboth and his vineyard. He was killed by the hands of Jezebel, a Prophetess for the occult, so that she could give the vineyard to Ahab. This is where we see the truth of what happened in Eden. Naboth is Adam His Eminence, the Vineyard is earth, Jezebel is the Seraph Kalia, and lucifer is Ahab. The reason why you and many cannot understand the bible is because the truth has been sealed, to set those up that are not called, but yet preach saying: I am a Prophet, or an Apostle, or a Pastor that has been anointed to feed the people.

        Only a true Prophet can reveal the truth because he comes with the keys of the kingdom, and walks with the Most Holy Spirit (not possessed by GOD) and can interpret GOD’s Height of Communication and dispense the truth in the form of REVELATION knowledge. GOD has one voice, and any that do are not sent do not come with HIS voice.

        So, for that reason i understand why the bible confuses you as you are not a Prophet, but you are not fake either and you acknowledge that what you read does not make sense. This reveals that you may be a child of the kingdom, one that cannot be deceived by the lies. OR else, you are not, in which case none of what is written is for you anyway.

    • Adam😂 Alison do Alison McQueen. I WWILL take with honor everyones sin upon Mr and my mortal
      Lighting body
      I will take place of the time now. When I do go before another judge and five 12 hour Saturdays ina year. I’m maximum security.

    • Adam and Eve in genius is just a metaphor in the storyline of right and wrong tree of knowledge well who wouldn’t want it, look where we are now. And she was also told of God giving us free will. She chose knowledge so to speak of. Thank you very much

  24. And from Jesus Christ which is that faithful witness, and that first begotten of the dead, and that Prince of the Kings of the earth, unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his blood, (Revelation 1:5)

  25. Actually, I pray to Y’shua. And, while my name is Elizabeth in English, it is Elisa en Español, and something else in Greek, something else in Hebrew. The God who gave us different languages at the tower of Babel knows them all.

    • Leo says:

      @Elizabeth
      Pray to G-d the Father only, as Yeshua himself did. No where is there in the Holy Bible nor any scripture where Yeshua (Jesus) instructs
      anyone to worship nor pray to himself. Indeed the very example of Yeshua was submission to G-d alone. Hear o Israel the Lord your G-d is one.

    • He brew flat earth beer. Location South Carolina and Virginia.

  26. When Jesus promised that some standing there would not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom, he took Peter, James and John up a mountain six day later. There, they saw Jesus transfigured in His glorified state, along with Moses and Elijah (representing the law and the prophets). Remember that the Scriptures claim that neither of these men was buried on earth.

    Peter, James and John all saw Jesus in His kingly state before they tated death. James was the first to join his Savior in the heavenly kingdom. Peter joined him later, through crucifixion (tradition holds that he pleaded to be crucified upside down ). John had to watch all of his fellow disciples go on to the heavenly kingdom ahead of him, while he remained behind, encouraging fellow believers with words from the Holy Spirit. Yet, each one of these men us even more alive than you or I at this point.

    When I taste death, it will be that -a taste – before I enter the eternal service of my King and Savior, Jesus Christ, who loved me and gave His life for me.

  27. So, since you completely discount the Bible, what is your source of truth? You claim to believe in God, and claim to not need His Son.

    I know you will scoff at this, but this is the verse that came to my mind first when I read your most recent comment :

    “Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and you perish in the way, for His wrath is easily kindled.” (Psalm 2:12, ESV)

    Jesus proclaimed, “I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6). You either believe him or call him a liar. When you face the Father, you will be asked only one question : “What did you do with My Son?” If you spent your life calling him a liar, what do you expect the Father to do with you?

    If you really believe that you are a better source of truth than the Bible, you have incredible faith. Is the object of your faith truly worthy?

    May you find the peace of God, as well as the God of peace.

  28. What I do know is that Jesus loves you enough that He laid down His life for you. He rose again and has been given by His Father the name that is above every name. You will bow down to Him and acknowledge Him some day, as Lord of Lords. If not during your time on earth, you will do so before you choose to go away from Him forever to the only place in the universe you can be away from His presence. The choice is yours to make. He loves you enough to honor your choice.

    • TruthSayer says:

      What about my comments below? That you, in acknowledging the ENTIRE BIBLE, you condone all the atrocities permitted, committed and condoned by God?

      WRT “Jesus loves you enough that He laid down His life for you”. How do you know that? Oh, the Wholly Holey Holy Bible says so. Well, that just about proves it doesn’t it. In that same book of lies, Jesus also tells his followers:

      “Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matthew16:28”

      Not true was it. Jesus even emphasizes his pronouncement with a “Verily” in front of the promise.

      What choice? My name is either written in the book of life or it is not. If you believe the cockamamie that Jesus “died for our sins”, then I too am saved. Jesus said you only had to believe in the father, not that he would die and be resurrected.

  29. You have listed isolated verses with no regard for context. The Bible, though written over about 1,500 years by many different human writers, is ONE COHERENT story of God’s love for humanity because it has been inspired by the Holy Spirit. He always points to Jesus.

    The Old Testament sacrificial system (beginning in the garden of Eden, when God made coverings for Adam and Eve from animal skins) was always a substituruinary death of the sacrifice on behalf of the repentant sinner. It foreshadowed Jesus, the REAL DEAL.

    Revelation refers to the LAMB no fewer than 27 tomes. This is the lamb who was slain, who is worthy of praise, who will return to earth to slay all of his enemies, who will save his follwers, who will reign forever as King of Kings and Lird of Lords. What did this lamb need to do before reigning forever? Die and rise again. What makes him a LAMB (sacrifice)? He died to pay for the sins of the world. He is the atoning sacrfice. His sacrifice makes reconciliation with the Father possible.

    This is the central theme that runs from Genesis through Revelation. My context is the ENTIRE BIBLE.

    • TruthSayer says:

      Oh Elizabeth, I am SO very glad to hear that your context is the ENTIRE BIBLE.

      That means you condone the millions that God killed while protecting HIS Children of Israel. You condone priests raping little boys in the name of God because the bible says God is all powerful. That means He could have intervened if he wanted to.

      You totally condone this passage from Numbers:
      31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
      31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

      That’s just great Elizabeth. I hope we never meet because I do work on the Sabbath and you are compelled by your belief in the ENTIRE BIBLE to stone me until I am dead. BTW… do you eat shellfish? That’s an abomination to God you know.

      And, Elizabeth how about this:

      That which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. Luke 16:15

      That means that whatever people value the most (kindness, wisdom, courage, love, money, power, sex, and cell phones) are all an abomination to your God.

      And don’t tell me Xians don’t cherry pick verses. How many times have I heard John 3:16 without any context.

    • Sam Massey says:

      Greetings Elizebeth Verde,
      You put your faith in the name of Jesus, I don’t believe it will hurt you, but that name will not help you either.
      I hope you realize that the name Je-sus is not the name that is in the Greek Text? Why would I think it was of importance?
      Because what the Greek Text tells us. Acts 4:12, be advised that the Greek Text says this, the Greek Text has the name of
      this supposed son, NEITHER IS THERE SALVATION IN ANY OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN,
      WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED. This name in Greek is ( Ie-sous ) pronounced ( ee-ay-souce’ ) Strongs #2424, notice very closely that that the utterance is quite different than the N.T. Jesus. Acts stresses that the utterance is important. I don’t know if
      you care one way or the other. The N.T. is a translation of the Greek Text, what does translation mean Elizabeth? It means to change. So young lady, you have a changed name of the original Greek name. Yes, even people say this writing was originally written in Hebrew. If it were so, which it is not, it would be pronounced Yahshua, but by using this false name Jesus you would still
      fall short of salvation, false names do not count. I shall show you how serious I am. Notice John 14:13-14, And whatsoever you
      ask in my name that will I do,that the Father may be glorified in the son.
      If you shall ask anything in my name I will do it. Elizabeth do you whole heartily believe these two scriptures ????
      I believe after 40 years of study that this is a lie!
      I SAM MASSEY JR? ASK IN THE NAME OF JESUS TO STRIKE ME DEAD AT 8:30 P.M. on May 31 2016, I ask in the
      foolish name of Jesus Christ. So be it ! you ought to visit http://www.free-truth.com Do you think something is going to happen to me
      in the next few minutes? It never has happened before, why now ? The supposed Old Testament, and the writings of Churchianity
      called the New Testament are not scriptural, neither is the word Bible something holy! Even King Tut believed in an after life, it is
      nothing new. The Bible is really Baal worship. I think I have wasted my breath, heavy Jesus believers don’t really listen,
      they think that they will die and then open their eyes, to see Jesus! Eccl.9:5, For the living know that they shall die, but
      the dead know not anything. It is very close to 8:50 P.M. I am still breathing , so the prayer I asked is a lie, like the rest of the Bible.

  30. Elizabeth A. Verde says:

    The entire book of Hebrews is centered on the theme of Jesus having sacrificed his own body to purify faithful human beings from their sin. Of course, the book must be read and understood in its entirety, and in the context of the rest of Scripture (both Old and New Testaments). However, the following verses point specifically to Jesus’ successful sacrifice:

    1:3b “After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,”

    9:11-14 “But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation” he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing eternal redemption. For it the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.”

    9:26b “But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”

    10:11-14 “And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ has offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.”

    13:12 “So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood.”

    The book of Hebrews explains Jesus’ words to his disciples during His final Passover meal with them, as recorded in Matthew 26:27-28:
    “And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, ‘Drink of it all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.'”

    Jesus IS the Passover Lamb for the sins of the entire world. By faith, we come under the covering, redemption, and washing of his blood.
    John 1:29 “The next day he [John the Baptizer] saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!”

    The same author, John, one of the inner circle of disciples of Jesus, wrote:
    1 John 2:2 “He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.”

    Peter, another of the inner circle, wrote:
    1 Peter 2:24: “He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds we have been healed. For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.”

    and:
    1 Peter 3:18
    “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. . .”

    Peter refers directly to the prophet Isaiah, who predicted the death of God’s anointed Servant:
    Isaiah 53:4-6 “Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turnes — every one — to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.”

    This is likely the same passage of Scripture Paul had in mind when he wrote the passage you dismiss as being a singular outlier is Scripture. He may be the only Scripture writer to pen the exact words “Christ died for our sins,” but all of these passages are in harmony with the idea. Here is a reminder of the gospel, the good news that Jesus died for our sins, and that he rose again:

    “For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas [Peter], then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all of the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared to me. For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach, and so you believed.”

    • Sam Massey says:

      Ezekiel 18:20,
      The soul that sinneth it shall die. The son shall ( NOT ) bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father
      bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of
      The wicked shall be upon him.
      Ps.40:6, Sacrifice and offering Thou did not desire; mine ears hast Thou pierced: burnt-offering and
      SINN OFFERING has Thou not required.
      http://www.free-truth.com

    • TruthSayer says:

      Elizabeth, who cares what the book of Hebrews says. No one even knows who wrote it. If it was written by Paul it is totally discredited because he is a liar. He said Jesus would return in the lifetime of those who were listening to his drivel.

      Paul preached counter to what Jesus preached. Jesus preached that there were many ways to salvation but he always included faith in His Father and good works. Paul, totally opposite, said that ONLY faith in the resurrection was necessary for salvation. Jesus would have kicked Paul out of the club had Paul been preaching along side Him.

      Why do you think quoting verses from the Wholly Holey Holy Babble has any affect on a TruthSayer?

    • Ann C. Donovan says:

      John was not among the inner circle of disciples, if by “inner circle” you mean the original 12.

  31. James Cameron says:

    Your site exists to “Free persons of all faiths from the tyranny of their religion,” and while that may sound admirable and useful, you must acknowledge the great irony of such a mission statement. Your freeing them is simply bringing them under the tyranny of your way of thinking. By spending so much time & energy in convincing people to think as you do, you are trying to bring them under your perspective. So you see, one way or another, we are all under something, whether it be Christianity, Hinduism, Atheism, etc., and the problem is not the so-called “tyranny” of any of these belief systems but rather which is the truth. And by freeing people from such “tyranny,” you are claiming that your perspective is the truth. In fact, you are claiming that your perspective is so true, so great, that it is the one view that liberates people from all their current views.

    In doing so, you may want to humble yourself, carefully evaluate what you do believe, and ensure that you are truly right, confidently right, before influencing other people. It is a tremendous responsibility to teach anyone anything, especially about religion and philosophical questions, for it can shape their worldview.

    – “Slave” of Christ

    • Truthsayer says:

      “In fact, you are claiming that your perspective is so true, so great, that it is the one view that liberates people from all their current views.”

      YEP… You got that right.

      “In doing so, you may want to humble yourself, carefully evaluate what you do believe, and ensure that you are truly right, confidently right, before influencing other people. It is a tremendous responsibility to teach anyone anything, especially about religion and philosophical questions, for it can shape their worldview.”

      YEP… I did all that and I sincerely hope it does shape their worldview to quit believing nonsense. Wouldn’t that be wonderful.

      Paul tried to change peoples’ worldview too but he told them lies. He said Jesus would return in the lifetime of his listeners. I haven’t said anything that isn’t true. What’s wrong with that?

      • Stefan says:

        Blablablaaaaa

        I honestly can not think how what people believe can let you spent hours to change that. It does not effect you in any way what these people think.

        And I will call it pure stupidity to read a book called the bible , and quote scriptures to disprove it. If you do not believe the bible, enjoy your time on things that dont upset you. There is no sense in getting upset and trying to change peoples views if it does not harm you personally.

        Do you spent your life trying to convince football lovers that it is stupid because you think so… just an example and not saying you dont like football.

        I will tell you why, because God has put eternity in your heart and that is why it is bugging you so much. Every human has that THING inside of him. And that is the reason you do it. Why spent your life trying to disprove something YOU DONT BELIEVE IN. There is the irony disproving something you dont believe in.

        TruthSayers Response
        ===================================================================================================
        HOLY SMOKES Stefan…. have you been talking to my wife? She is spot on with you except for the part where you say God has put eternity in my heart. What does that even mean?

        My answer to “why do I do it” is this: I believe religion and the belief in the supernatural is a force for evil. The self-proclaimed apostle Paul went around telling lies about the supernatural; I am using the Internet to tell the truth about the book that tells the worst lies ever told. Look at the motto “Free persons of all faiths from the tyranny of their religion”. I am the “Paul” of atheists.

      • Stefan says:

        You know what truthsayer?
        I don’t know how to reply dirctly to your reply to mine so i will do it here.

        God has put eternity in your heart means that just the mere fact that humans discuss God, evil, afterlife and meaning of life and so on is a supernatural thing, and that YOU that dont believe in it will spent all your time and energy on it and that you can’t explain.

        So to say you want to bring truth to people is a justification for something you DON”T know why you do it and why it is bugging you so much.
        I DID TELL YOU WHY I DO IT.

        Please tell me why is it only Christianity and the bible you disprove according to yourself.
        Why not take on the moslems and the koran and rip that apart, Why not go to Scientology , Buddhism , Hinduhism and all the rest of the religions and spent your life disproving THEM about their gods??

        STEFAN – YOU ARE SUCH A CONCRETE THINKER, UNABLE TO THINK BEYOND WHAT IS IN FRONT OF YOU. I ONLY KNOW THE DETAILS OF XIANITY BUT ASSUME THAT ANYONE READING MY TRUTHS CAN EXTRAPOLATE BEYOND MY CRITIQUE OF XIANITY TO SEE THAT WHAT I SAY ABOUT XIANITY ALSO APPLIES TO THOSE OTHER SUPERNATURAL BELIEFS. SEE? I DOUBT IT.

        And to tell me that religion is a way to evil is a joke, because evil is a religious term, and evil can only exist if God exists. WHOS SAYS? PROVE IT.
        Thats where it comes from n the first place from religion.

        You cannot be the PAUL because according to you the bible is not true , so Paul is not real and all the rest of the bible must be fictional. AGAIN CONCRETE THINKING. YOU JUMP TO THE CONCLUSION THAT I CONTEND THAT EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE IS NOT TRUE – WRONG SOME OF IT IS HISTORY AND IS TRUE. PAUL IS A CHARACTER IN THE BIBLE THAT I BELIEVE WAS REALLY THE PERSON HE IS REPRESENTED TO BE. I AM PROVIDING A SERVICE TO ALL OF HUMANITY JUST AS HE WAS DOING.

        If i tell you today that i believe that the earth will vanish in the next 80 years, will you believe it? NO you won’t but what if i DO BELIEVE it.

        You cannot PROVE that i am wrong and i cannot prove that i am right. Now we sit with the same problem as people wanting to prove life after death and no life after death, and proof for God and no proof for God.
        But i know for a fact that you will not dedicate a website and discuss with me and other people day in and day out that the earth will not vanish, Rather i believe you will say that you wont waste your time on something so stupid. If Stefan wants to believe that he is a moron and i wont waste even 5 minutes on discussing it with him.

        SO, SO BLAH.

        So you see, there is the reason i believe that God IS REAL.
        The mere fact that non believers will spent their lives disproving something they don’t believe in , read a book day in and day out that they call fiction and then try to disprove it by its own content is proof GOD exists. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.
        The reason the other religions is not so much in the spotlight and you don’t dedicate websites and your time to it is because ITS NOT TRUE.
        Do you see what i am getting at?
        NO, YOU MAKE LITTLE SENSE

        I would LOVE to see you take on VISHNU one of the hindu Gods and fight with them about it day in and day out and disproving it.
        You won’t do that and you know why?… Yes you guessed it…mmmm….. Because vishnu is NOT real and not true. So your inner being will find it a waste of time, just the same as arguing with me if the earth will vanish in 80 years.

        NOPE – WRONG AGAIN. THE CONCEPT OF VISHNU IS AS STUPID AS BELIEVING THAT JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS BUT I DON’T KNOW MUCH OF THE NONSENSE THAT UNDERLIES “BELIEF” IN VISHNU.

        PLEASE DON’T WRITE AGAIN. I AM SIGNING OFF RESPONDING TO YOU.

        I really hope that you can put your logic mind to my words and maybe you will see that spending your life disproving something that doesn’t exist is something you yourself cannot explain, only lame excuses and justifications is what there is.
        But that book you quote and your site is dedicated to give you the answers why you do what you do.

        Cheers

        Stefan

      • Stefan says:

        Please dont write again. Bwhahahahahaaaaaa

        Well I am and talk about logic?
        Here is your athiestic logic.
        I will spent my life doing everything in my power to disprove no-thing because God is nothing so actually im doing nothing.
        Whats your definnition then of evil?
        And when you are sick, please dont go to doctors because the weakest should die out that the strongest can survive as in evolution. So please dont mess up the future of our children and the future of the UNIVERSE by healing people. Let the weakest die and the strongest survive.

        You see when people quote bible verses to you you rip them apart but when you deal with someone that DONT quote the verses YOU cannot debate and that is just sad because logic athiests dont have.

        By the way I wont BOTHER you again instead I will pray for you

  32. Luciana23 says:

    I agree with most of what you say, but I am having trouble with the prophecies of Isaiah. In Isaiah 53 are prophecies which many claim refer to Christ’s death. They suggest that the death was an atonement for sins. What do you make of them? If they had not been written before the fact, they would not trouble me as much.

    • Prophecies of Isaiah? Who cares? “Many claim…” that’s it. They’re wrong. There is no such thing as someone who can forecast the future. Not now, not then, never. There are many who think prophecy is real but they are always looking back and twisting the present to meet some person’s stupid utterance whilst under the influence of the drug de jour.

      There are thousands of “prophecies’ that you never hear about because those that made them shut up after they fail. Or how about those that you have heard about (how many times have we heard that the end will come on mo/day/yr) that fail?

      Those prophecies that appear to be accurate are merely coincidental if anything.

      Matthew appends “according to prophecy” onto much of what he says. Biblical scholars are unable to corroborate many of his claims. Matthew has Jesus born in Bethlehem – Mary and Joseph just happen to be there. Luke has to make up a cockamamie story about the Romans taking a census and making everyone return to their ancestral home (do you know the ancestral home of your 16th generation removed?) in order to get baby Jesus born in Bethlehem. Both stories have Jesus of Nazareth born in Bethleham “according to prophecy”.

      Prophecy is nonsense. Forget about it. In Mark, Jesus “prophecies that the temple would fall. It did. Mark was written AFTER the fall of the temple! See what I mean?

      Do a Google search on “Failed Prophecy”. You won’t be able to finish it.

      • Luciana23 says:

        Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it.

      • Fredric Sharpe says:

        Fred here,Jesus said according to the bible I came that you might have life and have it more abundantly.

      • Fred,

        Ok…. and your point is?

        What make you think I give a fig about what Jesus is alleged to have said? All Jesus quotes are written by anonymous authors at least 40 years after they were allegedly spoken by someone, maybe a man named Jesus.

        Can you remember, word for word, character by character, scene by scene, a movie you saw 40 years ago? For “John” it would have been 60 years after the fact. John would have been in his 90s, a senile, Alzheimer ridden old man who probably couldn’t even remember where his hat was.

      • Elizabeth A. Verde says:

        Unless it was actually GOD who revealed the future to Isaiah.
        PRESUPPOSES THAT THERE IS A GOD – WHICH THERE IS NOT.

        Why don’t you just come out and say that you put no credibility in the Bible whatsoever.
        OK – I’LL SAY IT. I PUT NO CREDIBILITY IN THE SUPERNATURAL ASPECTS OR THE STORY OF JESUS’ DIVINITY WHATSOEVER.

        Why don’t you just outright claim to be the Singular Source of truth yourself?
        I AM THE Singular Source of Truth! NO! WAIT! I AM NOT THE ‘SOURCE’ OF TRUTH, I AM THE SAYER OF TRUTH AND THAT’S THE TRUTH.

        Your article and your replies to others’ comments imply that this is what you believe. GOOD FOR YOU – YOU GOT ME.

        Of course, I believe quite differently than you do. I believe Jesus told the truth here: “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.” John 14:6

        JOHN 14:6 WAS WRITTEN BY AN ANONYMOUS WRITER OR WRITERS SOME 60 YEARS AFTER JESUS DIED. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT JESUS ACTUALLY SAID THOSE WORDS. CAN YOU REMEMBER EVERY WORD SOMEONE SAID, WORD FOR WORD EVEN 30 YEARS AGO?

      • Stefan says:

        Truth is you DO Care what Jesus said… mmmm that is why you debate it day in and day out
        Doubt your doubts

  33. Teisme says:

    I whole heartedly agree! Thank you for sharing. Teresa

  34. JB says:

    Nice little piece here. Thought provoking for those who only believe in Christianity’s normal views. Adam and Eve shouldnt not be looked at 100% literal. Adam and Eve’s fall is what takes place in us. The Bible says the carnal mind is at opposite ends with God. Which is choosing or eating of the “forbidden fruit.” That fruit is staying in our left brain, which is the carnal mind, knowing Good and Evil. Which is the spiritual death that is talked about when Adam and Eve get kicked out of paradise. Now Salvation is to save us in the here and now to enjoy life of bliss or “heaven on earth” if you will. John 3:16 is beautifully written when you pair it with what Jesus said in John 17:3, “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” Jesus defines what life eternal or everlasting life is in John 17:3. So re-read John 3:16 with the new definition. To know God and Jesus Christ is to take part of the right brain, which is the Tree of Life in Genesis.

    • tomschaber says:

      OK I won’t take Adam and Eve 100% literal. What percentage should I take it as literal?

      And as for John 3:16…. I won’t take any part of that literal. How’s that you cherry picker. How is one supposed to know which parts to take literally and which part not 100% literal? You Xians just love John don’t you. You know John did not write John don’t you? And even if he did, he would have been in his 90s, a senile Alzheimer ridden old man who was trying to remember just where he left his quill pen let alone recall what Jesus said, word for word, some 60 years ago,

      • Newlyrestoredgospel777 says:

        then why wasn’t Moses who lived to 120 a senile old geezer with Alzheimer’s? None of you seem to understand that the WORD of GOD is power. John who is in the shoes of the Prophet, ate the scriptures, which is the Undiluted, raw, pure WORD of GOD – not the bible we have today. The WORD of GOD is Spiritual and life giving. There are Revelations hidden behind every WORD of GOD that one must be Spiritual to understand GOD in HIS height of Communication. This has been the problem throughout all the Church Ages, GOD’s Communication was not accurately interpreted and that is why there are contradictions in the bible.

        Holy Men of GOD who are eating the WORD as they eat flesh and blood cannot age, get sick, or die. They tried to boil Apostle John and still he never died. So they exiled him to the island of Patmos, where he received REVELATION about the last days. This has been the message from the beginning. The fruit of the tree of life is the message of GOD.

        I hope you understand this.

      • TruthSayer says:

        I don’t understand.

    • Newlyrestoredgospel777 says:

      It is not the left brain, right brain, it is the brain of the flesh and can only understand things in a literal sense. There is the mind of the Spirit, which is not the brain and it is by the Spirit whereby our knowledge of the GOD is known to us. My words are Spirit and are life. John 3:16 is in direct contradiction to: 1 John 2:15-17 and James 4:4.

  35. comeonman says:

    And I would call that a satanistic idea.

  36. comeonman says:

    Why would god went to down to earth for sacrificed himself to remove our sin when god can remove it without sacrificed himself?
    To understand human? And that was a stupid ideas I’ve ever heard. God didn’t need that, he already know human, inside and outside because he’s the creator. Even kids know that.

    I don’t know what is in christian’s brain believe such things.

    • Sam Massey says:

      In Deut.32:3-4, the Hebrew Text tells us YHWH is the Rock,and we know the Rock is the Creator, and His work is perfect. I
      do not think it matters which one is supposed to be the Rock, or Creator, Father, or son, because I have too ask, is this
      Mighty-One really perfect? Do you really think creating beings that grow up to want to lay with their own sex is a perfect
      creation? There have been millions of beings created this way through the years before they came out of the closet.
      This screams very loudly that there is nothing perfect about Jesus, or Yahweh, I think it shows the Bible is a lie.

  37. Benzer says:

    Mark 9:30,31

    • truthsayer0 says:

      Your point?

      We are to read these passages and then presto, everything said above is discredited? Ah, you’re right. Your judicious selection of Biblical passages has turned the tide. I now believe in everything that is written in the Wholly Holey Holy Babble.

  38. Benzer says:

    Matthew17:22,23

  39. Benzer says:

    Matthew 16:21

  40. Benzer says:

    Matthew 20:18 -19 read & understand you Muslim website

    • tomschaber says:

      Oh Brother – Muslim website? You are really daft.

    • Shabba says:

      While Mathew does have verses in regards to Jesus crucifixion and his raising after three days, there are no other verses anywhere in regards to him dying for our sins. That’s only in Paul’s single verse. There are many verses in regards to his crucifixion, but can you name a single other verse that actually says that Jesus died for our sins? Any man can claim to have a revelation from God and just write passages that typically agree with some common Christian beliefs all while keeping what they like, removing what they don’t, and adding what they want.

    • tomschaber says:

      Those verses say nothing about Jesus dying for your sins; not mine – for I have not sinned – ever!

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